__
__|__
__|
| | __
| |__|__
__|
| | __
| | __|__
| |__|
| | __
| |__|__
__|
| | __
| | __|__
| | __|
| | | | __
| | | |__|__
| |__|
| | __
| | __|__
| |__|
| | __
| |__|__
|
|--Hannah CARPENTER
|
| __
| __|__
| __|
| | | __
| | |__|__
| __|
| | | __
| | | __|__
| | |__|
| | | __
| | |__|__
|__|
| __
| __|__
| __|
| | | __
| | |__|__
|__|
| __
| __|__
|__|
| __
|__|__
!.....E90.0505.02, 03 Clark, Richard fgs: liv 9 Jun 1757 Norton, Bristol, MA
!.....9/30/2008 (Gene Zubrinsky, Ojai, CA): Cutter is in the same category as the Ancestral File and is of virtually no value. But Clark, _A History of the Town of Norton . . ._ (1859), seemed deserving of more-serious consideration--also Fernald, _The Skinner Kinsmen: Descendants of Thomas Skinner of Malden . . ._ , (1939). That neither author was certain as to Hannah (Mrs. Thomas) Skinner's maiden name is evident from the question mark after the name of Hannah Carpenter in Clark's account of Thomas Skinner (p. 89) and from the word "perhaps" between Hannah's first and last names in the Fernald volume (p. 14). Chances are that Fernald's source was Clark. But who or what was Clark's source? The tentative statement/notes of a Skinner descendant perhaps? If the source had been documentary in nature--a marriage record, for example--the question mark wouldn't have been inserted. In any case, this tentative identification of Hannah Carpenter (parents not given) as Thomas Skinner's wife warranted further investigation. The vital records of Wrentham, Massachusetts, contain entries for the births of six children to Thomas and Hannah Skinner between 1695 and 1706: Thomas, Solomon, Joseph, Hannah, Esther, and Mary. The will of Thomas Skinner, dated in 1757, includes the names of two additional children: Benjamin and Samuel (deceased). Four of these names--Solomon, Joseph, Esther, and Benjamin--are also those of four of the siblings (and, in one instance, also the father) of the Hannah Carpenter born at Swansea on 21 March 1671, daughter of Joseph3 and Margaret (Sutton) Carpenter. A fifth, Samuel, is also the name of Hannah's sister EstherŐs husband, Samuel Brentnall/Brintnell. They married at Swansea, Mass., in 1687 and, like Thomas and Hannah Skinner, settled in a part of Norton that is now Mansfield (Norton Hist 78, 89). Samuel Brentnall/Brintnall died at Norton, Mass., in 1735; Esther died there in 1730 (for details, see Joseph3 Carpenter sketch, p. 3, online at http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Joseph3-Rehoboth&Swansea.pdf). Thomas Skinner's will (1757) indicates that his daughter Esther was the widow of Ebenezer Brintnall; they had married at Norton in 1728 (Fernald, 16; Norton VR). Ebenezer Brintnall, who died at Norton about 1752, was the son of Samuel and Esther (Carpenter) Brintnall; he is named in his father's will (Rounds, _Abstracts of Bristol Co. Probate Records_, 1:246, 2:116).
Though circumstantial, the evidence is strong enough for us to say that the wife of Thomas Skinner was indeed Joseph3 and Margaret (Sutton) Carpenter's daughter Hannah; she married Skinner by 1695 (1st known child b. Wrentham 30 May 1695). A marriage date of 16 May 1694 appears here and there online, as do Malden, Mass., and New London, Conn., as the place of marriage; but I wouldn't trust any of these items. Considering that Hannah's sister Esther married at Swansea (see above), it's highly likely that she did, too.
Many thanks for providing the impetus I needed to properly research this issue and resolve it. I'll be revising the Hannah Carpenter information in my Joseph3 Carpenter sketch accordingly.
Gene Z.
9/30/2008
Jim wrote:
Which William Carpenter was the father of Joseph?
Who was his mother?
What dates and places do we have of both?
Was Joseph's father born in England, and how many generations of Joseph's father do we have documented?
And, Gene Z, do you have a website which has this genealogy, if you cannot repeat it all here?
As I said in my reply to your initial inquiry, see http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/carplink.htm for links to up-to-date, detailed sketches of Joseph3 (and his family); his father, William2 of Rehoboth; and the latter's father, William1 of Shalbourne, Wiltshire (_Bevis_, 1638). Despite claims to the contrary, that's as far back as we can go.
Gene Z.
10/4/2008
Jim D. wrote:
Hi, Carpenters, here is immediate children of Thomas Skinner, and Hannah Carpenter, my ancestors, with a few descendants
Jim D
860
Thomas Skinner_____________________Hannah Carpenter
b.3 Nov 1668, Malden,Middlesex,MA b.21Jan1672,Swansea,Bristol, MA
married: 16 May 1694, Malden, Middlesex, MA
d. about 1750, Norton, Bristol,MA d.aft 1710,P,Norton,Bristol, MA
861
Thomas SKINNER
? Birth: 3 NOV 1668, Malden,Middlesex,MA
? Death: ABT 1750, Norton,Bristol,MA
? Reference: 10135
Father: Thomas SKINNER
Mother: Mary PRATT
Family 1: Hannah CARPENTER
? Marriage: 16 MAY 1694, Malden,Middlesex,MA
1. Thomas SKINNER
2. Solomon SKINNER
3. Joseph SKINNER
4. Hannah SKINNER
5. Esther SKINNER
6. Mary SKINNER
7. Samuel SKINNER
8. Benjamin SKINNER
Hannah CARPENTER
? Birth: 21 JAN 1672, Swansea,Bristol,MA
? Death: AFT 1710, P,Norton,Bristol,MA
? Reference: 10144
Jim, I hope you won't mind my correcting some of the foregoing data (the question marks preceding several of the items suggest appropriate tentativeness on your part):
Although some but not all secondary sources have Thomas Skinner's birth date as 3 November 1668, the published volume of Malden vital records presents only the month and year, with a blank space where the day would ordinarily be. The day is therefore uncertain and should be accompanied by a question mark.
No record has been found of Thomas Skinner and Hannah Carpenter's marriage or intentions, at Malden or elsewhere. The 16 May 1694 marriage date appears occasionally online but is never accompanied by a source citation or any kind of support. The most responsible approximation is "by 1695," based on the birth date, 30 May 1695, of their first child, Thomas. There is, moreover, no reason to think that they married at Malden, where Thomas was born and raised. He had probably moved to Wrentham or Norton by the time of his marriage. (Clark's history of Norton says he never lived at Wrentham but simply attended church there while living at Norton [the part in present-day Mansfield], then adjacent to Wrentham.) If their marriage was true to custom, it probably occurred at the bride's home of Swansea, where Hannah's sister Esther had married in 1687. Their parents had died at Swansea when Hannah and Esther were quite young, but their elder brothers, Joseph and Benjamin, had married and established themselves there by the time their sisters married.
Thomas Skinner died between 29 June 1757 (will, in 89th yr.) and 19 May 1758 (probate). The year 1750 originated as a probate-date misprint in Clark's history of Norton.
Hannah Carpenter's original Swansea birth record appears with the date 21 1st month 1671. Prior to 1752, the first month of the year was not January but March. But since the first day of the year was typically 25 March, it is uncertain whether 1671 should be interpreted as 1670/1 or 1671/2. It is therefore best to present the date as it appears in its original form, with the correct, named month in brackets: 21 1st mo. [March] 1671.
In that Hannah is named in her husband's will (her care is left to their son Benjamin), she died after 29 June 1757, probably at Norton.
For source citations and more details, see page 4 of my revised sketch of Hannah's father, Joseph3 Carpenter, and his family, online at http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Joseph3-Rehoboth&Swansea.pdf. If you are revisiting this or any related Carpenter sketch (links online at http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/carplink.htm) after an interval of less than a few weeks, you should click on your browser's Refresh button to be certain that you're viewing the current version, rather than an obsolete one, which may be stored in a local cache. AOL users should also depress the Ctrl key when clicking on the Refresh button. Updated sketches have a revision date near the top of the first page.
Gene Z.
10/4/2008
Hi, Gene Z.
By all means, correct the record. In my opinion, you are the expert here . . . [Y]ou might, if you can, advise the Skinners of your Carpenters as it does not appear they have any of the Carpenter ancestors prior to Hannah in their records.
Jim D
10/5/2008
Jim,
<< I hope you do not mind my persistence with the marriage of Hannah Carpenter to Thomas Skinner >>
It was your persistence that induced me to properly investigate the matter. I'm grateful.
<< by the way, you might, if you can, advise the Skinners of your Carpenters as it does not appear they have any of the Carpenter ancestors prior to Hannah in their records. >>
I'll contact the Skinner Family Association.
Gene Z.